Buch Stephanie Senge: Konsumbibliothek

Bazon Brock in an interview with Stephanie Senge on "The Powerful Female Consumer"
6/23/2020, 3:30-5:00 p.m.

Senge: Women have always played a very important role in your life. What have you learned and experienced from women so far that you don't have/can't do yourself?

Brock: Europe as we have known it since about 1000 A.D., in other words, the great, modern Europe, arose from the veneration of two women who played specific roles. The first one appeared around the year 1000, when the first image of the Madonna can be found on the tympanum of the portal of a cathedral – this is the beginning of the cult of Mary. At the same time, Spanish troubadours originated the custom of Minnedienst (rendering homage by knights to courtly ladies). Both of these models of authority, to which men submit themselves, are the crucial point to which Europe owes its history. It began by a sort of "taming." Let us take Minnedienst as an example, where all kinds of advances were made to the lady in question, which were direct solicitations of sensual pleasure and lovemaking but always conscious of the fact that nothing could ever turn into reality. That is because a woman's actual significance consists precisely provoking men to express this sensually explosive method of gaining access, which at the same time is impossible to fulfill. This was indeed the civilizing moment par excellence. Courtly ladies ensured that those hordes of roving ruffians were turned into halfway civilized creatures who gradually developed a hierarchy of values.
Unfulfilled desire as a motive sustained that desire. The need for fulfillment was transferred to other aims and challenges, such as the conquest of foreign lands, exploration, and ingenuity. Instead of experiencing a novel with all the risks of failure involved, you wrote a novel, which according to its own logic would never fail, even if all the protagonists in it failed. The self-civilization of men consisted of learning to express in highest terms the desires they felt for their venerable ladies, and yet to direct their longing for fulfillment and the forces this unleashed towards other aims. The Christian devotion to the Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, was very similar. This, however, was not about becoming closer in the sense of fulfilling a life's aim, but was about the possibility of creating a type of woman for men or who could be represented in the figure of the Blessed Mother who imparted divine dignity to women. The devotion to the Virgin Mary has its origin in the fact that only women are the ones who have a divine quality, namely they can bring forth life. God the Creator was given the ability to create the world. He formed human beings from clay, but the true ability to give life through childbearing is reserved for women.

Senge: And today? Who provides the training to women?

Brock: The capacity to give birth comes from nature, so training is not required. The fact is, being revered is highly associated with holding power. This calls for some way of increasing the power of the revered women in that they also excel intellectually through their knowledge of formulas to heal wounds or by having historical references at their disposal such as fairy tales, tribal lore, etc. And most of all, by the fact that they tended the home and the hearth when their men went forth.

Senge: Housekeeping?

Brock: That first emerges with Luther's thoughts on family education. The term oikos, hence economy, dates back much earlier. The oikos is the hearth which is the center of the household, and where the possibilities for survival are prepared, namely by turning something raw into something cooked. This fireplace, which should never be extinguished, is guarded by the woman and is at the center of the economy. From this economy, which means nothing more than managing the household, emerged housekeeping as the sphere where a woman was to reveal her power and superiority. Men were unable to do this in the same way.

Senge: If we could now turn to somewhat more recent history: What do you think of the suffragette movement and the "MeToo” debate?

Brock: The suffragettes, who were enlightened largely through their own intellectual skills, were eminent contemporaries who thought about how social development should progress in national, social and religious terms. They had a great interest in the peaceful evolution of society. So, they tried to influence men in the sense of Marian devotion and Minnedienst by saying: We are not only the maverick wives of some men, but since ancient times it has been known that the women of the tribe were the ones who have sent men into battle as a collective group. Aristophanes is not the only one who spoke of the oddity that the men who might had the tendency to avoid fighting because they were afraid of defeat were encouraged by their wives: "We stand behind you! You are fighting on behalf of your families and your homes!" This was also the case with the suffragettes, who played a major role in making peace an issue; just look at Bertha von Suttner with the oldest peace slogan around "si vis pacem para bellum" – "if you want peace, prepare for war."

Senge: I came up with my topic because I am so excited about volume 2 of your Kabarettistische Vernunft (Cabaret Rationality) where you talk about mufti-perspectivism and say that you have to value others as much as you value yourself. During the emancipation of 1968, you were a defining influence. You said at the time it was seen as an affront to help a woman into her coat. I have to say, it's something I really enjoy nowadays. Not least in view of the current "MeToo" debate. I wonder when our society might get to the point where both women and men are strong enough to really appreciate each other so that people also incorporate these signs of admiration more into everyday life again.

Brock: If the debate on equality begins with the fact that the natural difference – women can give life and therefore have a divine ability – is no longer an idea we hold onto, but that we are all human beings with two arms, two hands, two eyes, two legs and are equipped with a psychic apparatus, then it can no longer be said that a woman is the keeper of the household or that she is responsible for caring for the children and so her function must be protected. This protection is then not necessary, and that means after visiting a restaurant a man no longer goes out the door first to ward off a possible attack outside. When she is wearing pants, she can go up the stairs first, and men can no longer (or want to) look up her skirt. If all these courtly distinctions cease to exist, interaction with one another is no longer governed by traditional rules, but instead, remains undefined. All you can do is act more or less indifferent, which we then call tolerance. The essential function of tolerance today is "Do whatever you want, I don't care." Whereas tolerare actually means just the opposite, namely to be able to tolerate otherness and allow it to be appreciated.

Senge: You are a deep admirer of Hölderlin where I found a sentence about the greatness of the unknown. Why do you think so many men are actually afraid of women?

Brock: Again, the advantage of being able to give life is fundamental here. A man is dependent on a woman to continue the genealogical line. Then there is the fact that during sexual intercourse women can determine whether things are satisfying or not. So men are always afraid of being classified as unsatisfying by women. Women have the power to get involved with more than one man. Men have tried hard to gain control over this – they've tried padlocks and iron chastity belts and confinement – it's never worked. Therefore, an amount of uncertainty always remains as to whether the newborn child is the husband's legitimate offspring or not. Men always feel inferior to women as a result of all these insecurities. Seeing themselves as inferior, they constantly try to compensate for this by exaggerating their masculinity.
This is what the psychoanalytic approach suggests, and this need to compensate spurs men on to do great things. In this respect, as Freud says, much of the notable cultural accomplishments of men are motivated by compensating, and in fact overcompensating, for their inferiority to women.

Senge: What suggestions do you have for women? How can they handle this?

Brock: In order to be worthy of devotion you have to trigger much imagination. Women should be acceptful of their devotional worthiness and be open to the ways devotion can manifest itself. It's not a matter of fulfilling desire, but through the dynamics of this interaction to keep relations suspenseful so that motivational driving forces are formed, but through its fulfillment, not risking the death of desire. Of course, you can see this presence of death when someone is raped. This precisely demonstrates a missed appreciation that leads to nowhere because everything breaks down, and we find ourselves back in the natural wilderness before any civilizational thoughts.

Senge: What was with that first wave of women you were telling me about?

Brock: The problem is that today women are not given any room to act because of the fact that they are women. They are participating in a social discourse where they no longer receive special attention. If they were to receive attention for their beauty, it would be just as suspicious as if a career or powerful woman would try to surpass men by showing who's tougher. In other words, there is no identifiable role acceptable to everyone of a woman who is at once beautiful and strong, full of life and devout and intelligent, although we are seeing these types of women today more than ever before! The role is ambiguous, and this ambiguity is not exactly conducive for appreciating women as being women.

Senge: And getting back to the first wave?

Brock: Women are no longer allowed, or no longer allow themselves to claim to be taken for who they are, rather than as role bearers. In earlier times, when a door opened, the housewife and hostess would enter a room, and in front of her a wave of assessment took place in terms of her attractiveness and the aura of her personality – she was like an apparition to be marveled at. I knew some who managed to do it again, but that was in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. The ones trying it nowadays, for example Hollywood stars, are the least likely to succeed at it, it's only bogus entertainment. In the reality of today's society, it's hardly possible anymore. So there remains only the image of women as being energized, active, beautiful, agile, flexible in the sense of being highly adaptable, courageous, no holds barred and no preconceptions.

Senge: As Alice Schwarzer says about equality, of course it's always about both genders. So, men must be equally admired.

Brock: No, being admired is always tied to power with men. Since they know absolutely nothing but power, be it on intellectual, functional, or financial terms. Men are always made attractive by power. Sensuality is the result of power. These kinds of men, even if they are not always the really great, capable, faithful types, will always find their throngs of admirers.